XP Hacking...so what!!!

[xstream]

all very good points, but I still say xp is overpriced. True, it costs alot to develope an os. But most of xp is just a hybrid of work already done in 98 and nt. While I'm at it, isn't most of windows stolen anyway? Didn't the idea of a window you can drag to originally belong to Steve Jobs?
Now we all know that a blank cd cost around $.12.
so why is it $199.00 for an xp pro upgrade? isn't it like $299.00 for a full new install on a fresh hd?
Surely the profit margin here is outragous. How about a more reasonable $50.00? hmmmmm? Surely more people will cough that up rather than steal?
Just thought I'd stir the pot some more.

[iNDEX]

i will break my silence.

In reponse to iNDEX:

See you are missing the point. It is the SAME thing. Stealing is stealing! What you are trying to do, and what everybody does, is they try to convince themselves what they are doing it okay. I am saying it is not okay. No I do not work for MS and no I do not own MS stock. I am just taking a correct position on this. Just b/c they are not prosecuiting does not mean that they cannot! I laugh everytime I read someone trying to convince me of their justification to stealing.

Yes , they are all stealing. My pt is do compare things logically. ppl steal from microsoft, it's illegal. but read the subject. who cares, what the heck. i didn't say they will not or cannot prosecute, but how many can they prosecute in the entire world. nobody is trying to convince who. i m a legal owners of various M$ pdts. why i use them? coz they damn fooking good to give a miss. it's their policy that make ppl pissed. it's now left to ppl who can convince me not to use fake pdt key etcc.....

What are you talking about. Are you blind, Red hat has grown into a pretty substantial corporation. No it is not big as microsoft. But it is getting pretty big, and why? Cause there product is getting better and so is their business model. :thumb: So, there is room to grow...even with Microsoft at the top!

No i m not blind. Did you mentioned corporation. I see you are awared of RH marketing strategy. RH pdts for businesses are no doubt big and growing. why corporates are switching to RH coz they are also being squeeze by M$ to the extreme, and RH has good pdts too. But hey, we are not corporates, juz mere home users. we play games, surf the net and use many other programs written for M$. RH, they are really good, i will definitely adopt them soon.

No, you are not borrowing. You are stealing. I doubt you are going to uninstall the O/S untill you can get a new free pirated copy of the newest version and install that. This is not borrowing. Stealing.

You are right, again, who cares. what the heck. dude.

i will myself first for illegal usage and if happened i do offended anyone.

[noddy]

Lots of interesting thoughts in this discussion. A question for someone to answer. Which came first the program that was expensive and pirated because of the excessive cost or the expensive programs due to pirates reducing sales. I beleive the cost of programs is to high at the beginning, this leads to pirates etc. I buy programs I can afford and freeware - the good programs i don't get because they are too dear. I agree stealing is stealing and morals are fine if you can afford them or manage without them. BRING COSTS OF SOFTWARE DOWN AND THE PIRATES WILL DECREASE.

Spit the bones out of this - enjoy.

[Raven]

So, who here expects anyone to change as a result of this discussion?

What I see here are two dominant factors: Those who steal/pirate/hack, and those who don't. We can jump up and down until we're blue in the face and nothing will change that simple fact. I will not blast anyone, or justify anything.

I am not a saint. I will not proclaim to be one. We all walk one line or another. Perhaps one of these days I will get brave enough to jump into Linux or the like and truely try to learn how things work. One of these days. Right now I have too many other things to do than devote my time to that.

Microsoft is expensive, Photoshop is expensive, Flash is expensive. Everything costs money to one person or another, no matter how it comes about. Get a job if you don't have one. Save up money if you don't have it. Or don't.. it's not my battle to fight.

I have more important things to do. Just my two cents.

[Wiggo]

The old "you get what you pay for" sayin' applies.
I pay and it works. :thumb:
If I didn't pay and it didn't work I'd keep quiet, format the HDD and reinstall the original and be happy till someone works it out proper. :smokin:

Taking up Lycoris (or another Linux distro and many can be obtained for free) maybe something some of you should think about if your not prepared to pay the devil. ;)
<center>:cheers:</center>

[PersianImmortal]

So, who here expects anyone to change as a result of this discussion?

I don't think anyone's arguments here will convert people to or from MS and away from or towards piracy, that's true.

I think the issue that triggered it is valid though, and that is with the literally hundreds of posts in this forum complaining about not getting SP1 to work, it's a little ironic that people expect something for nothing and get quite irate when they don't get it!

I paid for WinXP. I bought WinXP Pro Academic Edition at $180AUD (~$100US) which I believe is a reasonable price for the best MS OS I've ever used. Part of that money goes towards the R&D MS does to provide updates and free support like SP1. Another part goes towards making up the lost revenue MS doesn't get because of piracy.

You can imagine I tend not to be overly upset if people who haven't paid for (but still insist on using) WinXP can't get SP1 to work.

So if you choose to pirate a product, that's up to you. I didn't say I've never done it myself. However I'm also smart enough not to advertise the fact and usually if I can't get something that's pirated to work then I realise that as Wiggo said..I'm getting precisely what I (didn't) pay for!

[Raven]

I think the issue that triggered it is valid though, and that is with the literally hundreds of posts in this forum complaining about not getting SP1 to work, it's a little ironic that people expect something for nothing and get quite irate when they don't get it!

You can imagine I tend not to be overly upset if people who haven't paid for (but still insist on using) WinXP can't get SP1 to work.

So if you choose to pirate a product, that's up to you. I didn't say I've never done it myself. However I'm also smart enough not to advertise the fact and usually if I can't get something that's pirated to work then I realise that as Wiggo said..I'm getting precisely what I (didn't) pay for!

So true. Why are people complaining? It's actually funny now that I think of it. SP1 was designed NOT to work for illegal copies of XP.. so now that it doesnt work..? Voila, there you have it.

Even so, SP1 brought forth as many bugs as it corrected. Some of these people's questions/rants are quite valid. I think I'll be waiting until a later version to update my copy. I wasn't too impressed with what it ended up doing.

"You get what you pay for".. that should be the end of it.

[BrokenSaint]

Saidin,

You work for M$ or you are basically one of the 'shareholder'.

True, Bill doesn't need the $$ cos he would probably be busy hugging buxom babes or playing golf. no matter wat his lifestyle, $$ is readily generated for him without him being worried.

The ppl that need the $$ are the PICs or so called 'Shareholders'. These are basically the ppl that make life difficult for ppl like us. How many of you buy shares not for the motive of profit.

Now, even the life of the legal owners of M$ pdt are being ridicule for the activation crappy thing. I m a legal owner of an XP Home upgrade, after i used up the activation process, i resorted to calling M$ for a new pdt key. There, i was treated like a pirated user. To prove myself as a legal owner, i need to register my OS and i even hv to bring my box and receipt down to M$ office for proof of purchase. Well, this happened in my country. so WTF is all this.

Nobody will be stupid enough to steal a Subaru even if he desparately wanted it. pls compare things logically. Here, how many ppl in the world used friendly versions of M$ pdts. So how many of them can M$ prosecute and put them behind bars.

How can we not use M$. Do we hv options. After been sued for monopolised trade, M$ is still widely being used by every living beings that use computer. it's become like indispensable and we are being poison with the drugs. when the needs or craving arouse, can we substitute the consuming with say viagra.

There are no rooms for the likes of Red Hat, Sun etc to grow. How many of us can comfortably say we will adopt Red Hat and give up M$ totally.

we are not stealing it, we are just borrowing it for evaluation. Hoping one day M$ can convinces us to adopt them wholeheartedly.

i hv say my stand and hv nothing more to add on here even if being heavily ridiculed here.

I am glad to see someone with insite that has his priorities in line, yes, I have to say that we are not stealing we are borrowing for evaluation...I like that :)

[Greg]

all very good points, but I still say xp is overpriced. True, it costs alot to develope an os. But most of xp is just a hybrid of work already done in 98 and nt. While I'm at it, isn't most of windows stolen anyway? Didn't the idea of a window you can drag to originally belong to Steve Jobs?
Now we all know that a blank cd cost around $.12.
so why is it 9.00 for an xp pro upgrade? isn't it like 9.00 for a full new install on a fresh hd?
Surely the profit margin here is outragous. How about a more reasonable .00? hmmmmm? Surely more people will cough that up rather than steal?
Just thought I'd stir the pot some more.

I am not a pirate............but..............Xstream makes the best point out of all the posts here!! I mean what the heck is reverse engineering? Just a legal loophole to hack a product and call it your own creation. Is that not stealing? I mean aren't you stealing a concept? Xerox came up with the original GUI.......Apple and MS just borrowed the idea.......right? Bill Gates and MS, way back when, were hired by Apple to write applications for their GUI. Bill took Apple's idea and made Windows. Did he steal that idea? When you boil it down, isn't reverse engineering stealing? I know that we are purchasing intellectual material (ie. OS's) but MS didn't buy theirs. They just took someone elses idea and mass produced it.

What about when Compaq reverse engineered IBM's BIOS so that they could clone it. Is that stealing? I know it isn't by the legal definition, but without skirting legalities, do you think that is stealing?

Digital Research and Novell reverse engineered MS-DOS. MS reverse engineered Novell's netware client software. Oracle is currently attempting to reverse engineer Real Networks Real player. They are all stealing from each other and then passing the bill for their "R&D" to us.

[biday77]

La La --Yada Yada. I'm a pirate and proud of it.
Don't you people read the newspapers. This whole country is run by and for crooks--From Wubya,Cheney,Microsoft,Quest ad infinitum...
If you think this is a democracy,think again. Money is power--and Microsoft is one of the biggest and baddest. Big enough to take on and handily beat all three branches of the federal government. If you can't out-lawyer 'em,buy em. The politicians are certainly for sale. The only part that always amazes me is how cheap they are. Contribute 10 or 100 thousand--get one or two billion bucks back. Another "wise" investment.
Steal all you can before Paladium gets here. Up with KazaaLite too!
Lets get real about the state of the world,and our peon place in it.

[Greg]

If you think this is a democracy,think again.

Without turning this discussion into a lesson on Civics 101......This country has never been a Democracy......It is a Democratic Republic. And yes.......There is a HUGE difference between the two.

Also not EVERYBODY is corrupt or "on the take". Don't be so cynical. That is a very easy thing to say.....to lump everyone into a perceived category. It relieves you from the process of intelligent thought and observation.

I am not attacking you dude.....just can't stand comments based on perceived generalities. Be a little more specific when you make blanket accusations and I think you will get an ear!

[Screaming Eagle]

If Microsoft actually sold XP for what it costs them to make/develop the OS, then that would be the end of the trail. The other revenue generated by the sales process is poured back into R&D for future projects.
The OS is getting better and more staple due in part to the efforts of hackers and pirates which actually benefits everyone involved to a point. The only downside to this equation, as I see it, is the extra costs incurred by Microsoft to police these actions.
I am of the opinion that if you own one copy of Windows, whichever version, then you should be able to install it on as many machines YOU own for personal use only.

[Greg]

Another good point............ Sadly hackers do play a role in getting the rest of us a better product.

[bigjackusa]

MS sells its products at a price according to what the market will bear. The music companies price CDs the same way. If you had a company, you would too! As long as large numbers of people continue to try to rip them off, they will have arguments that sound reasonable for convincing the government to enact measures to maintain their profits. If enough people DO NOT use the products, the only recourse for these companies to maintain profit margins is to add value to the product or adjust prices. Pretty simple concept really.