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**parsec** · 02-02-2013, 01:03 AM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

Originally posted by virtualaudio View Post

...

Lastly, I would like to have modules compatible with another brand w/ the Z77 chipset, as I do intensive music recording, editing & mastering business & can't afford to be 'down' (I have been cross-referencing the compatibility with the Asus Z77 V-Pro just in case).

Any insights to this puzzle?
What are your experiences?
What RAM are YOU using in you Z77 Extreme 6?

Thnx

G

The part above is a TALL order, as they say.

Regarding compatibility, the only memory I know of that just works in any board I've used is the Samsung MV-3V4G3D, which you can check out here:

SAMSUNG 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model MV-3V4G3D/US

Plain looking as can be, nothing amazing specs-wise, no XMP profiles, what's the big deal? How about 16GB of this at 2000, 10 10 10 24 1T, at 1.35V? That's how I use it on my Z77 EX 4 board, with i5-3570K.

**kick** · 02-02-2013, 08:13 AM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

The samsung ram appears to be v good for some people notably parsec above and Wazza300 who also uses it.
Thats only available in 4gb modules I think so fair enough.
Why are you(Virtualaudio) looking for 4x4 instead of 2x8? cost?

I was thinking of getting some of it myself last month, but eventually opted for some Gskill(it was a free postage consideration and the "I want it now"

considerations that decided me.
I already had 2 sticks of 1333 rated gskill but thas not important.
My setup is also limited on speed ,in and around 2133mhz being the max and I couldnt really run memory as low as 2000,due to the limitations.

I could have purchased 11-11-11-30 2133mhz gskills or 1600 8-8-8-24 for about the same price.

I went for the 1600's in hopes they would clock ok and they do.

To cut it short 1600s running at 8-8-8-24 compared to 1600's running at 10-10-10-27 ,there is a difference in benchmarks(barely) on mine..but its more about the operating speed for bandwidth and latency.

2133/2143 mhz at 11's ,10's or 9's(yeh the 1600 stuff clocks stable at 2133 1.53v 10-11-10-28) there isnt much difference in benched performance,its all down to the actual speed.

Why didnt I buy some 2133 memory then and have done with it..well There wouldnt have been any option to overclock it on my board system,all I could have done is play around with the timings!

The next thing on intel stuff at least afterabout 2000there isnt a lot of diff in benchmark performance untill you hit around 2400and then maybe 2800-3000.

The binning buisness: Gskill will "bin" their supplied modules/ic's accordingto the speed theycan achieve.They do use samsung ic's on some memory anyway!

Thas some of the reason the very hi speed memory is so expensive,cos a small amount of chips will reach "top" speed.So were told anyway.

Be wary of the L low voltage memory as some of it doesnt clock any better than normal 1,5 v memory. The samsung stuff ^ does, its 1600 cl9 memory as standard.

There is also the"you could get lucky" factor. Gskill for example if they have say a glut of 2133 chips binned and there is hi demand for the 1600 stuff.. some of the really good ic's may get dropped into the lower spec memory..

My 1333 red ripjaws dont clock well at all .. they do get to 1600 stable at over 1.6v but thas about it.The blue 1600 ripjaws are better^

Me,personally if I had a 2100-3000 mhz capable memory controller and chip set.. Id look at some blue ripjaw with timings tighter than 11-11-11-30,not the red ripjaw anyway 2133 17000 memory.
I mean memory sold as 2133 and hope that I got a good clocker set.. that might do 2400+.
I think gzkill are selling 3000+ memory now so they must have some hi end bins..even if the timings are up at 13/14

The samsungs..I dont know if they work well over 2133?

Its all relative anyway and personally Im not too worried about ultra low v if I get a performance boost and the temps dont go to hi.

Oh temps:I use temp probes inserted under the heatsinks on the memory,gskill dont have on chip memory temp,some mushkins do I think.

The compatability lists, it could be something like:

Asrock test 2..or even 1 stick of a particular gskill model in a board.
Then gskill see this and put down that 4 matched sticks of dual channel ******xl are compatible when only 2 have been tested on the board?

**virtualaudio** · 02-02-2013, 01:57 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

kick and parsec:

I am looking at 4x4GB for several reasons:
The 4x4's generally have lower latency specs (I guess it takes more cycles to address the larger 8GB modules).
The Z77 can only go to 32 GB, and apparently fewer boards support 4 x 8GB modules, or even 2 x 8GB at higher speeds. Besides, I am jumping from 32 bit OS to 64 bit OS - from 2 GB RAM to 16 GB RAM. It seems a good starting move.
Yes, the 8GB modules tend to be more expensive and if I were to get them, I would want to go all out to 32GB, which I can't afford right now. Maybe later, after I deal with all the other issues that I'll have to address moving to a new OS (XP to Win 7 Pro, and from 32 - 64 bit), and all the quirks of the mobo, drivers, audio plugins and expansion cards I am dealing with (I have thousands of dollars worth of VST plugins for my Cubase/Wavelab DAW software to reauthorize).
I also think the power distribution would be better with 4 x 4 instead of 2 x 8, which is important to me since I have 2 RME PCI audio converter cards, 2 UAD-2 plugin acceleration cards (a Quad & a Duo) and whatever GPU card I get (either the GTX 480, 570 or 650). Incidentally, the expansion cards limit the mobo models I can get. That's why the ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 & Asus Z77 V-Pro are at the top of my list.

I have confirmed that the GSkill F3-128000CL9Q-16GBXL and the F3-14900CL9Q-16GBXL are listed in both the ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 mobo and the Asus PZ77 V-Pro boards.

I am not really looking to overclock, but it is always nice to have that option. Plus, I have read anecdotal reports that higher rated memory runs cooler, and one person said that their 3770K (or was it their northbridge?) ran cooler after putting in F3-176000 modules (but they were using a P68 mobo).

To cut it short 1600s running at 8-8-8-24 compared to 1600's running at 10-10-10-27 ,there is a difference in benchmarks(barely) on mine..but its more about the operating speed for bandwidth and latency.

2133/2143 mhz at 11's ,10's or 9's(yeh the 1600 stuff clocks stable at 2133 1.53v 10-11-10-28) there isnt much difference in benched performance,its all down to the actual speed.

Why didnt I buy some 2133 memory then and have done with it..well There wouldnt have been any option to overclock it on my board system,all I could have done is play around with the timings!

I didn't know that! I thought the XMP profile forces the memory to a certain timing and voltage to be able to boot (thus part of the compatibility formula), but then allows you to up the timing to the rated speed, probably with a little extra voltage. E.G. GSkill F3-14900CL9Q-16GBXL will initialy boot at 1600 1.5v, but then allows you to crank up to 1866 with the 9-10-9-28 settings. Am I wrong? I haven't had much mem overclocking experience.

Parsec: Have you tried 4 x 4GB of the Samsung memory? I do need at least 16GB for my purposes.

I appreciate the info from both of you!

Any more comments would be welcome. I am sure more people would benefit from reading real world experiences about mobo/RAM combinations.

**kick** · 02-02-2013, 05:30 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

I think parsec is using 4x4.according to his post..or he may confirm.whether its working as "fast as if he only had 2 4gb sticks in ,I dont know.

Aside from the points youve mentioned above.,4matched sticks are sold to run at their advertised speeds.2 matched pairs (which are bought seperately as matched pairs) may or may not work together exactly as specified, but you used to be charged extra for 4 matched sticks.

The xmp thingis like the best the manufacturers can get out of the sticks at aparticular speed.
You can overide it in 2 ways.
Not use the option at all(if its on your memory)
Use the xmp setting but set it to run at a different speed..higher naturally :)
Course then it may not run at all with the xmp option set.
You can also vary the voltage and still use "xmp" timings.

The 1155 cpu range you are talking about as an upgrade from your present system..
The second system in my sig isnt too different from yours and the upgrade to the p67/1155 cpu was very noticeable, thats over 2 years ago.
The intel board/cpu progression since then(for normal users) to like z77, isimprovements in bits and pieces..mho..pcie 3 ..not exactly deal breaker atm unless you gotta have the latest bit.

,I dont see a big need to change from a p67 to an z77. sata 3.I have.usb 3 also.tho I dont notice that.
One of the moderators here ProJim is waiting for the release of Haswell in june to upgrade and his systems are 775 also.Ive seen Wazza300 suggest waiting for Haswell(Sounds like a movie title).

Perhaps parsec or Wardog would suggest considering waiting also.. I dunno.. since youve waited this long already.

h67,p67,z68,z77, 1155 . x79 2011 kinda the x58 successor?has more than dual channel ram capability anyway . Haswell whatever else it brings..gonna be 1150 socket so presumably the 1155 will be dying out?..like the 1156 went bye byes.

Ive got 2 years out of my 1155 already and itll go for awhile yet,I hope, its just that now,in 2013 with a 1150(possible main cpu line) socket coming out in 4 months.Id consider my options more than in Jan 2011.

**profJim** · 02-02-2013, 05:50 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

I might be wrong, but I'm not expecting Haswell to offer a significant performance gain over Sandy or Ivy Bridge overclocked systems.
I'm hoping that Haswell will have a larger number of native Intel sata 6Gb/sec ports and native Intel USB 3.0 ports, along with more pci-e lanes.
If not, my half-fast C2D system will have to live for another year or two.

Time for another web search to see if there's any new leaked information about Haswell's desktop feature set, and guestimated delivery date.

**profJim** · 02-02-2013, 06:18 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

A quick web search points to Haswell desktop availability possibly in June 2013.
A couple of links:

I was really hoping that I wouldn't need to deal with non-Intel usb 3.0 built-in hardware and drivers.
It looks like my LGA775 system is going to have to live for another year or two.

**parsec** · 02-02-2013, 11:13 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

Prof Jim, I assume the six Intel USB 3.0 ports in Haswell is not enough? Ivy Bridge chipsets have four USB 3.0 ports.

Why they don't go to all USB 3.0 ports, I don't know. Do you really need that many? An expansion hub would not help you?

IMO, CPU performance has become a non-issue for most PC users. So what's the point of new models? Replacing old systems and getting the technology to the point where current CPU, mobo, memory, etc, is on one chip, needs no cooling, and all PCs are mobile.

VirtualAudio, yes I use 16GB now, as I said earlier. I didn't bother trying to OC 8GB, since I was just so impressed by the speed I got with 16GB, and at that low voltage. I really haven't pushed the memory OC much, since I'm happy with it now.

Given you are going from 32bit XP, to 64bit Windows 7, you'll be so happy with 16GB, that 32GB may be forgotten. Even 8GB is so much better than 4GB, the 32bit OS limit is crippling, why does that even exist today?

You mentioned the memory running cooler, and the CPU as well with different memory. The memory controller is in the CPU since Sandy Bridge, called the IMC, not in the chipset. I could believe the CPU running a bit cooler with different memory, if it put less stress on the IMC. Memory itself produces very little heat, all the heatsinks and fans for memory is worthless IMO.

You're slightly confused about the use of the XMP profile. Memory has its basic SPD data for speed and timings stored in it, so a boards BIOS can read it and set it up so it can boot. It usually has several sets of data to accommodate as many boards as possible. That data is always lower in speed than the advertised speed, to insure the board will boot with it. Once the PC is stable and running, then the XMP profile can be used to automatically set the memory settings to a higher speed. That data can change the voltage too. XMP is really a convenience, and as kick said you can adjust the settings yourself.

**virtualaudio** · 02-03-2013, 09:01 AM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

Again, much appreciated!

Waiting for Haswell - my guess:

June (if they are on time) to release the platform.
2 - 3 months to work out basic issues with the required chipset & drivers. A few more months to really dial it in (rev1, rev 2, etc; bios update 9, 10, 11....).
Revisions of the CPU to correct errata (usually an 6 - 14 month cycle to the last rev).
3 - 6 months for software developers to take advantage of the new platform.
6 months for the prices to become reasonable for a mid level system. Especially considering the ongoing shortages due to the Taiwan flooding and Japanese typhoon/earthquake, excpected to impact the industy well into 2014.

I could be way off, but considering past trends....

It looks like the emphasis in Haswell is in power efficiency and faster on-die GPU. I am not really interested in either too much. I plan on sticking with desktop builds for a good while, and Haswell sounds like a laptop targeted design (look at the list of expansion cards I use - replacing them would triple the cost and negate other advantages). Energy efficiency is good, but waiting another year or more to quintuple my desktop computing power doesn't appeal to me. I will get a good laptop then instead.

You're slightly confused about the use of the XMP profile. Memory has its basic SPD data for speed and timings stored in it, so a boards BIOS can read it and set it up so it can boot. It usually has several sets of data to accommodate as many boards as possible. That data is always lower in speed than the advertised speed, to insure the board will boot with it. Once the PC is stable and running, then the XMP profile can be used to automatically set the memory settings to a higher speed. That data can change the voltage too. XMP is really a convenience, and as kick said you can adjust the settings yourself.

Maybe I wasn't clear on that. Or maybe I haven't done enough reading. I get the 'SPD to ensure boot' part. I thought I was basically saying the same thing, unless you are saying that RAM without XMP has multiple data sets to detect different mobo base timings, and XMP is simply an extended table of timing profiles that one can take advantage of to make overclocking easier. I.E. you can overclock non XMP RAM 'manually' and get the same results as overclocking XMP RAM 'automatically'. I use those terms loosely. The last thing I learned about was EPP and I assumed XMP was a next gen EPP technology. I've seen base timing/voltage ratings on the GSkill site and they are single specific default timing & voltage settings (no mention of several data sets for defaults), which leads me to believe that those are the default boot timings, and the memory ratings 14900, 17600, etc are overclocking speeds dictated by the quality (or efficiency, or whatever) of the chips, i.e. this RAM can overclock to 1866, etc.. Unless I am missing something.

I am still puzzled by the QVL lists for ASRock & Asus vs the GSkill compatibility lists; knowing manufacturers, I'd guess some of the mobo listings are current and correct and some of the RAM manufacturer listings are correct. E.G. GSkill doesn't even offer (anymore?) one of the only two 4 x 4GB sets of ram that both ASRock and Asus list as QVL for various Z77 boards - (the F312800CL16Q - 16MBXH 8 - 8 - 8 - 24, I think), and that is one of the only two 4 x 4GB QVL RAM sets in the list for the standard timing of 1600! GSkill does still have them in pairs, but I know better than to buy to pairs!

Ok, this is already too long....

**kick** · 02-03-2013, 01:28 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

You can consider xmp as epp. I dont know that there is any difference.
Its just sticks of memory"that we in gskill binned and overclocked to work well at this speed and timings"

The memory will have all the usual jedec timingslike 7-7-7-20,8-8-8-22,9-9-9-24 ,with 9-9-9-24 being the most common either at 1333 or 1600..but even then they may be on the memory as 9-9-9-24 at 700 (1400) which if there isnt an xmp profile stamped on too should mean it will definitely work at 1333 at 1.5v but could mean something like 1.6v for the same timings at 1600.
The samsung memory mentioned above is I think sold at the standard 9-9-9-24 at 1600 at 1.3v is it? . I dont know if it has an xmp profile on it and as I mentioned before just cos some memory will run at reasonable 1600 timings at low/eco voltage doesnt mean it will clock well to 2000+at closer to a more normal 1.5v.
The samsung does apparently.some gskill eco memory ive read reviews on doesnt. "Intel limited mem speeds xmp!"..i think the profile is just read and the intel on chip mc .especially a speed limited one like the i5 2500k runs it at that

Haswell will take ages to get working properly..maybe maybe not.

End of 2010 I was in a somewhat similar position the even then venerable 775 stuff was still just about available as it had been for what like 6-7 years in different variations?
Like my D820(circa 2005) will run in my q8400 board and vice versa.
I could have gone for 1156 stuff,but decided to wait.My p67 1155 worked right away no compatability problems for me ..no more than you would get with any new system.
Like for haswell Asrock have all the specs..initial boards made already n testing started probably.
By the release date in June all the online reviews and "how to overclock your Haswell,Group tests of Haswell boards will have been done,just they wont be able to publish them.

What about the b2/b3 sandybridge chipset controversy...made no odds to me,free exchange,and I got a spare bios chip out of it and an extra years guarantee.

The main thing is its a new socket..
1155 however you want to look at it ,has killed off 1156 inside 2 years ,more like 18 months to stop production.
My cpu.. the 2500k is I think being stopped in march 2013,but there is the 2550k and lots of other 1155.
Like they say you pays your money etc.but Im glad I didnt go 1156..or get the asrock "transformer"1156/1155 board..might have antique value someday.

**- wardog -** · 02-03-2013, 05:23 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

The pic below shows what my two 8GB(4Gbx2) kits of Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US (<-Link) appear as.

EDIT: Pic is at stock speed and timings.

**parsec** · 02-03-2013, 11:33 PM

Re: Compatible Memory - Z77 Extreme 6

Virutal, no big deal about the XMP profile, and I did say you were a little confused, but as I see now, not at all. EPP was a DDR2 memory thing, the forerunner to XMP.

wardog's post shows all the profiles the Samsung memory has, which are just called the JEDEC profiles. Your description of XMP profiles is perfect, and yes you could do that yourself.

Memory manufactures include the slower speed profiles as defaults to save users and themselves grief. Say an inexperienced guy buys 2400 memory for his PC, that is a cheapo all in one job, that can run memory at 1600 at best. He puts it in and it boots because the PC's BIOS runs it at 1333, since the PC designers know the limits of that hardware, and the settings for 1333 are in the memory profiles. If the only profile in the memory was at 2400 settings, the PC would never even POST.

I don't know what to tell you about the compatibility list, and what the memory manufactures do or say. I've had no luck using memory not in the list, until I found this Samsung memory. Maybe other manufactures will use it (they do) and their products will be more flexible in use.

wardog, CPU-Z doesn't seem to read the Samsung memory quite right. Notice the weird frequencies that would end up being 1218, 1370, 1521, and 1676 speeds. But the actual speed you got was a normal 1600. HWiNFO64 read this memory like this:

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