Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

What are you using for your OS drive, I don't think you posted that information?

It's a Hitachi 500G SATA drive. S.M.A.R.T. says it is ok, and so did a surface test I ran from Windows...

The Windows activation thing is strange, but could be related to problems with the OS drive... Normally the mobo would need to be changed to cause an activation.

I'm not sure anymore, but I think it happened after the BIOS upgrade... I recall it installed new drivers to somewhere in that same timeframe... Might have been sufficiently different that Windows though it was a different MoBo! In the end it resolved itself, as I didn't want to do the reactivation manually at that time, and the next day the reactivation thingy was gone... Apparently it was similar enough that internet-reactivation was allowed... ;)

Seems you tested the CPU, RAM, and video cards to the high heavens, and they are fine. That leaves (besides the OS drive) a low power/idle state issue. But you disabled IES. What Windows Power Plan are you using, not that it usually causes problems like yours.

Well, it seems to be stable now the RAM is downclocked and RAM VIN has been upped by a number of points! (The board dynamically set the VIN to 1.485, I upped it to 1.55. So it was UNDER official V rating, and I increased it OVER...

When I get back from the UK (traveling for work), I will test 1333 again @ 1.55V, and let y'all know!

(PS: I used the "High Perfomance" pplan, and modified it to never sleep or hibernate, only turn off monitor after 20m and HDD after 5m)

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Can you borrow a higher quality 500 watt power supply to test with?
A failing psu can cause random stability problems.

I only found one review for a similar Cooler Master 460 watt power supply and the review isn't very good.
Cooler Master Elite Power 460 W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

Cooler Master sold two 460 watt psu models, one made by FSP and one made by Solytech.
Both models have 12 volt "maximum rated output" = 324 watts.
Figure 12 in the review shows the psu power output label.

I like many Cooler Master products but the power supplies are usually at the low end.
Some of the most recent Cooler Master power supplies are excellent because they switched to high quality psu manufacturers.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

This is a newer model from CoolerMaster, will look up the details when I get home. But even then, the max powerdraw on 220AC I've measured is 253W, and that was once the max is normally between 215W and 223W, well below the specced value. even at 80% efficiency the max ever is approx. 200W on the secondary side...

Having said that, the report still is disturbing, so I will review the PSU info when I get back!

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...e-ud3r-v2.html where the OP had some booting/stability problems with a good quality power supply. There is a lot of useful power supply information in the thread. Power draw that was too high was not the problem and a failing psu was the problem.

Buying a new, high quality power supply solved all of his problems.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...e-ud3r-v2.html where the OP had some booting/stability problems with a good quality power supply. There is a lot of useful power supply information in the thread. Power draw that was too high was not the problem and a failing psu was the problem.

Buying a new, high quality power supply solved all of his problems.

I hope that isn't my problem... It's a brand new PSU I bought for this build...
(But - just to be certain - I will try to borrow (different brand, more W) a PSU for testing!)

EDIT: BTW... The machine hung again this afternoon. Wasn't even home, it was just idling (well more or less, there's always a ton of stuff running in the background on Windoze, obviously!), and and it was restarted by my wife before I could have a look at what was on the screen!

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Download and run Resplendence Software - WhoCrashed, automatic crash dump analyzer freeware and post a screen-shot of the report.
If your system froze instead of a BSOD, run the windows Event Viewer and look for logged errors that occurred shortly before your system barfed.

On rare occasions, any brand new hardware can be defective, including a power supply.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Anyone have any experience with Fortron?<br />
<br />
I basically can chose (for this testing) between another CoolerMaster @500W, Fortron @500W or Corsair @430W... That's my local dealer, so I can get them quick *and* easily return them if it doesn't help the stability... I am hesitant to try another CoolerMaster for this test, and *if* I do this, IMHO it makes more sense to get a higher power PSU?...<br />
<br />
Here are the specs of the Fortron, still searching for reviews:<br />
<table style="text-align:center; vertical-align:middle;">
<thead>
<tr>
<td colspan="9" style="font-weight:bold;text-align:center; vertical-align:middle;">Output Table</td>
</tr>
</thead>
<tr>
<td>AC Input</td>
<td colspan="8">90~265V, 6A~3A, 47~63Hz</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>DC Output</td>
<td>+3.3V</td>
<td>+5V</td>
<td>+12V1</td>
<td>+12V2</td>
<td>+12V3</td>
<td>+12V4</td>
<td>-12V</td>
<td>+5Vsb</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Max Output Current</td>
<td>24A</td>
<td>24A</td>
<td>18A</td>
<td>19A</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.5A</td>
<td>3.5A</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Max Combined Power</td>
<td colspan="2">123W</td>
<td colspan="4">432W</td>
<td colspan="2">23.5W</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Total Power</td>
<td colspan="8">500W</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Peak Power</td>
<td colspan="8">550W</td>
</tr>
</table>

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

The psu might be from FSP.

For me, FSP is a mixed bag, some units are pretty good and some aren't good at all.
Can you buy a 450 - 550 watt Antec, Seasonic, or XFX power supply that is in your price range?

I wouldn't think of buying any power supply unless at least one of the following review sites gives it a good review:

• JonnyGuru
• HardOCP
• HardwareSecrets
• PCPER
• TechPowerUp

From FSP Group - Wikipedia:

Fortron Source Power Group (FSP Group) is a Taiwanese company that manufactures power supply units for PCs. FSP is the 5th largest power supply vendor in the World. Their major power supply product lines include:

• PC / Industrial Power Supplies
• ODM or OEM Power Supply
• Open Frame
• LCD TV Power
• Adapters

FSP Group has global representation with branch offices in UK, Germany (Willich and Augsburg), USA (San Jose, Irvine and Chino), Russia, Japan, India, Korea, China and most recently in France.

FSP developed their own retail brand "FSP" in 2003. They use fans manufactured by Yate loon electronics and Protechnic electric. Power supplies manufactured by FSP are sold by Antec, Sparkle Power International (SPI), OCZ, SilverStone Technology, Thermaltake, Nexus and Zalman under their own names.

Retail Power Supply Units sold under the FSP brand include:

• Aurum
• Everest
• Epsilon
• BlueStorm
• Saga
• Bestec

[parsec]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Anyone have any experience with Fortron?<br />
<br />
I basically can chose (for this testing) between another CoolerMaster @500W, Fortron @500W or Corsair @430W... That's my local dealer, so I can get them quick *and* easily return them if it doesn't help the stability... I am hesitant to try another CoolerMaster for this test, and *if* I do this, IMHO it makes more sense to get a higher power PSU?...<br />
<br />
Here are the specs of the Fortron, still searching for reviews:<br />
<table style="text-align:center; vertical-align:middle;">
<thead>
<tr>
<td colspan="9" style="font-weight:bold;text-align:center; vertical-align:middle;">Output Table</td>
</tr>
</thead>
<tr>
<td>AC Input</td>
<td colspan="8">90~265V, 6A~3A, 47~63Hz</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>DC Output</td>
<td>+3.3V</td>
<td>+5V</td>
<td>+12V1</td>
<td>+12V2</td>
<td>+12V3</td>
<td>+12V4</td>
<td>-12V</td>
<td>+5Vsb</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Max Output Current</td>
<td>24A</td>
<td>24A</td>
<td>18A</td>
<td>19A</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.5A</td>
<td>3.5A</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Max Combined Power</td>
<td colspan="2">123W</td>
<td colspan="4">432W</td>
<td colspan="2">23.5W</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Total Power</td>
<td colspan="8">500W</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Peak Power</td>
<td colspan="8">550W</td>
</tr>
</table>

Note that the Max Combined Power is only for one or two rails above each of the three Max figures. Those three Max figures cannot be added together for the total output power. Also, the 432W Max for the 12V rails is less than the current draw figures for each rail (18 + 19) = 37, 37 X 12 = 444. Also note that each of the two 12V rails could draw more than the max amps spec, and have OCP kick in.

WHY are you apologizing for the 1333 memory? I'm far less impressed with the IMO cheapo PSU's you are considering. Once you get past 1600 in memory speed, the diminishing returns graph drops off like a cliff. All the over 2000 memory speeds have little to nothing to do with actual performance. Yes I've tried and use those speeds, no difference.

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

@CescoAiel
Can you possibly borrow a decent quality power supply from a friend?
Maybe a friend of yours knows someone else with a decent unused power supply.

As I recall from a thread several years ago, power supplies cost much more in Australia than in the USA, even when you account for the exchange rate differences.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Download and run Resplendence Software - WhoCrashed, automatic crash dump analyzer freeware and post a screen-shot of the report.
If your system froze instead of a BSOD, run the windows Event Viewer and look for logged errors that occurred shortly before your system barfed.

Crash Dump Analysis
Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump
Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.
No valid crash dumps have been found on your computer

(Also nothing useful in Windows event viewer(s)!)

Note that the Max Combined Power is only for one or two rails above each of the three Max figures. Those three Max figures cannot be added together for the total output power. Also, the 432W Max for the 12V rails is less than the current draw figures for each rail (18 + 19) = 37, 37 X 12 = 444. Also note that each of the two 12V rails could draw more than the max amps spec, and have OCP kick in.

WHY are you apologizing for the 1333 memory? I'm far less impressed with the IMO cheapo PSU's you are considering. Once you get past 1600 in memory speed, the diminishing returns graph drops off like a cliff. All the over 2000 memory speeds have little to nothing to do with actual performance. Yes I've tried and use those speeds, no difference.

Regarding PSUs: I was just going by what my local dealer has (easier to get, easier to return if necessary)! They've borrowed me a Fortron 600W unit, until next weekend, just to help troubleshooting this issue... (Obviously they hope I'll buy it (or at least a similar one) if it resolves the problem...)

I don't mind spending more money on a PSU, *if* it resolves the problem... Being a casual gamer, I've already sunk more money in to this new machine than my budget allows (hey, I'm married *and* have kids! ) at this time...

Regarding RAM speed: I wasn't aware of that performance cliff... Makes me feel not as bad about the 1333 RAM...

@CescoAiel
Can you possibly borrow a decent quality power supply from a friend?
Maybe a friend of yours knows someone else with a decent unused power supply.

As I recall from a thread several years ago, power supplies cost much more in Australia than in the USA, even when you account for the exchange rate differences.

Luckily I don't live in Australia... Prices here in NL are not *much* different from US...

As noted above, the local shop borrowed me a Fortron 600W unit until next weekend... They use this exact model in all their builds (incl. up to medium-level gaming machines. And even the high-end ones they use this brand, just the 750W model), and claim they've never had stability issues with these!
So not the greatest brand, as far as I can tell (although they are one of the biggest manufacturers WW and OEM for a lot of other brands, their quality seems to be mixed, depending on the product line), but if it works for troubleshooting, I'm all for it! ;)

And that warrants an update on that subject: This PSU runs MUCH cooler than the CoolerMaster 430W unit did... The CM blew out really warm air, this one actually exhhausts air that feels cool!
Haven't been able to run tests at high performance yet (just back from a business trip), but the CM exhaust was warm at idle too!

*crossing fingers and toes, hoping the PSU was the culprit*

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Your test psu is rated for 432 watts combined on the 12 volt rails instead of 324 watts.
It looks like the two identical power supplies had the same problem in your system.
It's not likely but it is possible that the first two power supplies were defective.

From what I've seen from several reviews, it appears that the the BeQuiet! power supply manufacturer in Germany makes good quality units.
Check them out at be quiet! Silent PSU & Cooling for your PC

Sorry about getting the wrong continent, at least I got the right planet.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Your test psu is rated for 432 watts combined on the 12 volt rails instead of 324 watts.
It looks like the two identical power supplies had the same problem in your system.
It's not likely but it is possible that the first two power supplies were defective.

I probably haven't been clear about this, but I started with the CoolerMaster, because I didn't want to use an old PSU with new (more demanding) hardware, so this FSP one is only the 2nd PSU I am testing with...

From what I've seen from several reviews, it appears that the the BeQuiet! power supply manufacturer in Germany makes good quality units.
Check them out at be quiet! Silent PSU & Cooling for your PC

I will check them out, and will look to buy a better quality PSU if this testing confirms that it was the PSU!

Sorry about getting the wrong continent, at least I got the right planet.

Well, it'd be awkward if you got THAT wrong!

I have now been running Prime95 for a few hours, and so far so good (but then again, that never has been an issue, except with the RAM bit, but that may well have been the under-voltage causing issues. I will up the frequency again later on to see how that goes)...

One thing I find interesting is that with this new PSU the exhaust not only stays way cooler, so do the board and CPU...

A little comparison of the max temperatures measured:

Max temp/PSU	CoolerMaster 430W	Fortron 600W
CPU	65.3C	59.5C
Northbridge	77C	67C
Southbridge	37C	31C

So I have a feeling we may (finally) be on to something, and the system was probably struggling to find the power it needed before...
*crosses fingers* Only time will tell!

EDIT: Just went to the BeQuiet! page, and then started searching in the area... I found a dealer who sells BeQuiet! PSUs, and they have the 'Be Quiet! Pure Power, 630Watt, ATX' unit in stock, and the price is reasonable as well (As it stands, it is only €25 more expensive than the FSP one I have got on loan!)...
If my machine stays stable until next weekend (gives me 8 days to test, it never has been up and running for that long <G>), I will probably drive out and buy it!
I esp. like the fact that - according to the specs on their site - it is modular too (and that at that price point!), so no more unnecessary cables in the case!

[profJim]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

In doing some bequiet! research, they don't manufacture their power supplies, they contract with several different OEM power supply manufacturers for psu designs that meet their specifications. This is the same way that Antec, Corsair and many other psu vendors operate.

I easily found two bequiet! psu reviews and it looks like it is a good 80+ bronze rated unit. It was originally sold in 2011, uses a semi-modular cable setup and has a 3 year warranty. Both reviews mentioned that power cable length was on the short side but it looks like bequiet! has since increased the length of the cables.

Be Quiet! Pure Power L8 630W Power Supply Review | KitGuru

From your lower temperatures with your borrowed psu, it appears that your CM psu was defective and possibly providing "dirty" power to your motherboard. Motherboards have voltage regulating circuits and your motherboard was probably working overtime to provide proper power.

I prefer 80+ gold rated units because they use higher quality components and often have a 5 year warranty. The gold rated units have higher efficiency but it's debatable if their lower power consumption over the life of the psu will offset the higher initial cost. The electrical power cost savings depends on how much power is used and how many hours your system is running.

[CescoAiel]

Re: Asrock 970 Pro 3 R2.0 + FX-6300 + Corsair 2x4G + GTX650Ti just freezes or restarts.i

Be Quiet! Pure Power L8 630W Power Supply Review | KitGuru

Whoops! According to the review one of their OEM providers is... FSP!

The newer ones seem to be from a different manufacturer tho...
I don't mind the partial modular part... You always need the mainboard and CPU cables anyway!

Last night the machine rebooted again, but this time it was a "normal" BSOD on the audio driver (HDAUDBUS.sys)! Keeping an eye on that, but right now it is running Prime95 (Custom w/ 90+% RAM in use) with the memory clocked at 800MHz (DDR3-1600) and 1.65V, and it has been at it several hours now! (CPU Core temperature is showing 59.8C)