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**parsec** · 02-27-2015, 02:18 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

I would say ASRock has to many Z97 boards, 18 models I count on their main mother board page. Considering that Z97 was simply a "refresh" of the Haswell/8 series chipset release, that's a lot of board models. That's just the Z97 chipset boards too. That's one more than the 17 models of Z87 boards.

Another factor might be what I've seen just recently, the inclusion of USB 3.1 on Z97 boards. Several new/revisions of current Z97 boards with USB 3.1 will be available soon. So time to get rid of "older" inventory.

Here's a review of the board in question: ASRock Z97X Fatal1ty Killer (Intel Z97) Motherboard Review

Will you need the features of the Z97 Extreme6 for a "home server and/or game machine"? The two network ports on the 'Extreme6 is the only thing that might be better for a home server board.

Definitely get a G3258, they are fun! Microcenter has them for $50 now. They do seem to be affected by the "Silicon Lottery" affect as much if not more than other Haswell processors. I have two, the first one will OC to 4.0GHz fine, but needs a bit over 1.2V to do so. The second one will do 4.0GHz at a bit over 1.0V. It runs at stock clocks at 0.8V. I saw one guy in another forum that cannot go beyond 4.0GHz with even 1.4V, apparently. The first one I bought was just after release, the second not long ago, so I think the later production units are better.

Temperature is not a problem like it is with the quad core Haswells, if you use a decent CPU cooler with a G3258, you'll never need to worry about over heating. They work surprisingly well, I put one in my Z97 Extreme6 PC, and it booted at exactly the same speed.

**Ken429** · 03-01-2015, 06:30 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

I drove up and purchased the Z97X Fatal1ty MB and G3258 CPU at Micro Center. All was well until I tried to update the BIOS from version 1.70 to 1.90. The Internet Flash errors when it tries to download the BIOS. It looks like all the settings in the BIOS are the same as they are on the Z97 Extreme6 MB where I have used Internet Flash several times with no issues. The only difference is I have not installed anything on the Fatalt1y system. I know I did not use the Internet Flash on the Extreme6 system until after installing W8.1 and all the associated drivers. I did not think I needed drivers for the BIOS to function?! Or is the Killer NIC the culprit? Comments appreciated.

**parsec** · 03-01-2015, 11:11 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

The BIOS does not need drivers to function, but the network chip does.

I think I saw an ASRock FAQ about Internet Flash, which said it would not work right until an OS (and drivers) was installed.

You can update the BIOS with the standard Instant Flash feature, with the BIOS file on a USB flash drive. That's the only method I use, always works fine.

FYI, be sure to keep Turbo enabled in the BIOS when using a G3258, although it does not support Turbo. Otherwise you won't be able to OC it.

**Ken429** · 03-01-2015, 12:41 PM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

Thanks for getting back to me.

That is kind of what I was able to deduce from the cryptic comments in the BIOS. So I went ahead and updated the BIOS via a USB drive and all is well. It also looks like the Killer NIC needs something from somewhere during the driver installations before it will work as advertised. At first, after just installing the INF file and the NIC driver it kind of worked but recorded an error when running it's speed test. After all the drivers were installed and the system settled down the speed test completed successfully!

I wanted to install a known (W8.1) and make sure the system is stable at somewhere near 4.0 GHz. Once there, I try to use it for a W10 test system?

**parsec** · 03-02-2015, 01:01 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

One of the few things I've had problems with when trying Win 10 TP was some of the advanced features of the Intel network drivers. But that was not with the Atheros Killer NIC, which I don't have on any boards I use.

I did not have any problem with an OC using Win 10 TP, or at least as far as I could tell. 4GHz should be easy to reach with all but the worst G3258s, it seems once beyond that is where you'll learn how limited your particular sample is. Or how much voltage you're willing to push through it.

**Ken429** · 03-02-2015, 03:07 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

Looks like I should have gone with another Extreme6 MB instead of the Fatal1ty MB. I'm sure I'll figure out what is going on eventually but almost every time I let Windows do an update where the system must restart it comes up and does not have a USB Mouse and/or cannot find the boot drive! A cold reboot and all is well again. This has happened several times. It's always something!

At this point all I have on the system is a 120GB OCZ Vertex 3 (boot drive), Sony DVD Burner, 2X4GB 2400-10 memory set up XMP 1.3 Profile 1, an old USB Microsoft Explorer Mouse, and an old USB Microsoft Keyboard, Seasonic X750 P/S, BIOS Version 1.90 and Windows 8.1 will all the updates applied.

**Ken429** · 03-03-2015, 05:13 PM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

parsec,

After much trial and tribulation I finally figured out what I had screwed up when I installed W8.1. I forgot that I had to load the UEFI version from the W8.1 USB stick. W8.1 was "kind of" ok but as soon as I ran the INF update it went nuts. The BIOS would recognize all the drives in the system but W8.1 would only recognize the SSD and the DVD Burner. I won't make that mistake again. That is probably why I had so much trouble with the Mouse and W8.1 restarts when I was doing the updates the first time around!

So, I now have a very stable system with a Mushkin 240GB DX SSD for a boot drive, a 250GB Raptor for whatever, a WD Black 1TB for storage and a Sony DVD burner. Everybody's happy and running smoothly. The G3258 runs at 3.2GHz and appears to need only 1.11V at 100% load. Actually, the system is pretty snappy at the stock settings.

Now for the OC'ing. The BIOS in the Z97X looks almost exactly like the BIOS in the Z97 Extreme6 MB. So, since I'm lazy can you give me a few hints on how much voltage I need to get to 4.0GHz and beyond. I assume you have played with yours. I know that it don't like 4.0 GHz with the stock default settings! You mentioned I need to enable Turbo in a previous post, exactly what BIOS setting were you referring to? I tend to jump to the Adaptive Mode and get to something reasonable - I'm not trying to set any records. Help appreciated.

**parsec** · 03-04-2015, 12:48 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

I just finished putting my good G3258 in my Z87 Extreme6 board, removing my poor one. I had the good G3258 in my Z97 Extreme6 board, which now has a Xeon E3-1276 v3 in it. The Xeon is quite a bit different than the Intel 'K' processors I've used for a while now.

So I'm testing this G3258 over again in the Z87 board, and it is acting just as it did in the Z97 board. Its Auto voltage value (with mode set to Adaptive, which is what Auto is) is 1.058V at stock clock speed. But I knew it could run on less, so tried that with one simple setting in the BIOS, and it could run at less than 0.9V at 100% usage, stress testing.

The point here is just because Auto gives you a voltage that works, that does not mean it is optimal, meaning optimally low.

Your G3258 sounds like it could be a good one, given that Auto voltage of 1.11V. I like to see how low it will go with stock clocks, as a real indication of how well it will OC.

Enabling Turbo, which will be enabled by default, is the Turbo Boost option, set to Enabled.

Anyway, what you can do for 4GHz is several things:

Set the multipliers to 40 either Per core or All core, leave the VCore voltage and mode at Auto, and see what you get for a Vcore voltage. It might be about 1.2xV, which is not to high. Even if it is 1.3V or higher, that is not enough to damage the processor, and you'll be trying to reduce it from there anyway.

Set the multipliers to 40 and leave the VCore mode on Auto or Adaptive. Change the VCore Voltage value from Auto to your stock Auto voltage, 1.11V. Then just below the VCore voltage setting, set the VCore Offset to (+) 0.10V. That will give you a final full load voltage of ~1.23V, or should do that.

As always, it is hard to predict exactly what voltage your CPU will need for a certain OC. The single voltage reference point you provided makes that difficult, since we don't know how close to Armageddon (BSOD) your processor is at 1.11V.

You could also change the Voltage mode to Override, and set the Override voltage to 1.200V with the multipliers at 40. Or set it to 1.175V, or lower and see if it boots and then passes a 100% load stress test.

Temperatures won't be a problem compared with K processors, just two cores and smaller cores make it much easier to keep cool. You should have seen that now with your stock speed test.

If your 4GHz OC works at whatever Auto gives you, then you could go higher, or try to reduce the voltage to find the minimum for 4GHz.

**Ken429** · 03-04-2015, 05:16 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

parsec,

I arbitrarily set the CPU Ratio to All Core, All Core to 40, CPU Vcore Voltage Mode to Adaptive, Vcore Adaptive Voltage to 1.18V and Vcore Voltage Additional Offset to +0.01. I was feeling real good since the system came up and ran the AIDA Stress Test for 10 minutes and IBT for 10 passes with no apparent issues. See attached screen capture. However, no matter what I do to the Vcore Adaptive Voltage the system will not boot at a multiplier beyond 40! I tried letting the MB slam in it's predefined settings for 43 (1.32V!) and that would not boot either. Any idea on what I'm missing? Sees like every body on the internet is getting the G3258 to go to 45'ish although with "outrageous" voltages. I suppose I got what I wished for - cool and stable at 40 but no more?!

Just for reference IBT Seconds/Pass:
E8500 @ 3.8GHz ~34 Seconds
G3528 @ 4.0GHz ~30 Seconds
Q9550 @ 3.4GHz ~20 Seconds
2600K @ 4.4GHz ~9 Seconds
3770K @ 4.5GHz ~8.9 Seconds
4790K @ 4.6GHz ~7 Seconds

Attached Files

**parsec** · 03-04-2015, 08:13 PM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

I see a max VID of 1.195V, and a Vcore of 1.216V, which in general is typical when using Adaptive voltage. The VCore is a bit higher than the VID.

The actual VID and VCore are unique to each processor, so I'm not saying your specific voltages are typical.

Of course we don't know what the minimum voltage your G3258 at stock speed can run at and be stable. That's why I reduce the voltage from the amount that the Auto setting provides, at stock speed, to determine what the OC potential of the processor is. The lower the voltage at stock speed, the more likely it will have higher OC headroom.

IMO, everybody on the Internet is not getting 4.5GHz, even with outrageous voltages. Given what I've seen, 4.0GHz is a fairly common limit for many G3258s. One user that initially posted in this forum and then went to OCN, could not get beyond 4.0GHz using over 1.4V.

Your CPU Input voltage (Vccin) is plenty high at 1.936V, your CPU cache is at 3.2GHz, which is fine and not a factor in limiting the OC. Your core/CPU temperatures are not a problem.

You simply may be at the limit of your G3258's OC capability. The "silicon lottery" affect, meaning all processors of the same model do not have the same OC capability, and what we each get is simply by chance, is a reality. I experienced that with the two G3258s I have, one cannot OC beyond 4.0GHz without very high VCore, the other one can do 4.0GHz with lower VCore. I'm still learning how high the second one can go.

Here's my IBT results at 4GHz. Note that I'm using a higher Stress Level, more memory, which causes each run to be longer:

I don't get a VCore reading on this board (Z87 Extreme6) from HWiNFO.

I remove some HWiNFO readings, since some are from unused sensors, or things I don't care about or not applicable. I don't see any of the Power readings, or the VRM output readings, the latter being a new addition to HWiNFO.

I'll see if I can do 4.5GHz...

**parsec** · 03-04-2015, 08:43 PM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

Lucky me...

Obviously booted and ran IBT at 4.5GHz. Note my VID is 1.282V, which means the VCore is at least 1.3V. But not much more than 1.31V, if at all, IMO.

One thing I want to point out is the CPU Input voltage I use. A mere 1.680V. That's the setting in the UEFI and shown in HWiNFO. NOT that a lower CPU Input voltage means a better OC, just that it does not need to be super high, at least in my case.

I can post screen shots of my UEFI settings in OC tweaker, but I highly doubt there is any magic setting that I use.

This G3258 is just a good lottery winner.

**parsec** · 03-04-2015, 09:06 PM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

Better do this too.

**Ken429** · 03-05-2015, 06:12 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

If I did not have to drive thru 50 miles of hell I would go up and get a second G3258 and hope for a winner! But I guess the difference between 40 and 45 is not a major issue for a low power consumer Home Server. I'm trying to rationalize my bad "luck" in the lottery.

**parsec** · 03-05-2015, 11:48 AM

Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

Yeah, sorry, I'm not trying to show off here. It is all pure luck that I have a good one.

Let's see, are you driving to the downtown Chicago Microcenter? That would be 50 miles of horror, I get that! Both of my G3258s are from the Westmont, Illinois store. I've never been to the downtown Chicago store. Plus it's torture that they only charge $50 for them!

What I'm doing in the UEFI is using Adaptive for the VCore voltage mode. This G3258 shows the VCore in H/W Monitor as 1.058V with all Auto settings for Voltage Mode, etc. So when I OC to 4.0GHz, I put 1.060V as the CPU Voltage, the option just below CPU Voltage Mode. I assume that as the base voltage programmed into the CPU, really the VID programmed by Intel into this CPU. I know that this CPU will run at stock speed below 1.058V/1.060V, but still use that as base voltage.

Then I put a value in the CPU Voltage Offset option. I set that to (+)0.100V. With Adaptive Voltage, I end up with a bit over 1.18V as the core VIDs shown by HWiNFO, at 4.0GHz.

So you could try your 1.11V as the CPU Voltage, and try 0.100V as the CPU Voltage Offset. If their is any magic in this, it would be the CPU likes its programmed VID being used, and providing a positive offset voltage also agrees with it.

For the 4.5GHz OC, all I did was change the CPU Voltage Offset to 0.200V, and increases the CPU Input Voltage to keep it at least 0.4V above the VCore/VID. That's all I did, nothing else.