Cannot install my new RAM

[Warhammer: 3025]

I recently bought a second set of 1GB memory sticks for my system. After installing them, my computer enters an endless reboot cycle when powered on (before even sending any picture information to my monitor - I can't even get to the BIOS with the extra sticks in). I've confirmed that both of the new sticks are working fine: removing all my RAM and booting up with one stick at a time (plus running memtest for a few hours on each) tells me that both of the new sticks function correctly.

I've attempted to alter the DRAM Voltage in the BIOS, but that hasn't led anywhere so far. I've tried the BIOS default 1.8v, a slightly higher 1.9v, 2.0v (the lowest recommended voltage from the product specs), and 2.1v (the highest recommended voltage from the product specs). I currently have the voltage set at 2.0v.

My motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L F10 (Updated before I started this process via the @BIOS utility with the most recent BIOS version)
My videocard is a VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870
My power supply is a SeaSonic S12 II SS-380GB 380W ATX12V V2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC
My processor is a Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz

The memory sticks (both old and new) are G.SKILL 240-Pin DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Model F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, in 1 GB sticks.

[Acebmxer]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

with using 4x1gb ram sticks you might have to up Mch voltage up. ideally 1.2-1.26 is needed for 2x2gb sticks. You may need more up to 1.3. Also you might not be able to run all 4 sticks at 1066. first boot into bios with 1 stick in set dram to run at 800 set mch voltage to 1.2 dram voltage to 1.2 press F10 to save and exit. shut down install 1 or 2 more sticks and see if it boots. if it does add in the 4th stick. if boots with all then try upping ram speed to 1066 increase mch voltage as necessary to keep or make it stable. If it boots with 1,2 or 3 sticks but will not boot 4 sticks at 800 try slowly upping mch voltage max i would go would be 1.34 depending on your over clock. You may not get all 4 stick in running at 1066; you should but you may not its allot of stress on motherboard. its best to use 2x2gb sticks. If you still need help click the link in my sig for a bios temp for your mb and post back filling in your current working settings and someone can further help you out.

[Warhammer: 3025]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

with using 4x1gb ram sticks you might have to up Mch voltage up. ideally 1.2-1.26 is needed for 2x2gb sticks. You may need more up to 1.3. Also you might not be able to run all 4 sticks at 1066. first boot into bios with 1 stick in set dram to run at 800 set mch voltage to 1.2 dram voltage to 1.2 press F10 to save and exit. shut down install 1 or 2 more sticks and see if it boots. if it does add in the 4th stick. if boots with all then try upping ram speed to 1066 increase mch voltage as necessary to keep or make it stable. If it boots with 1,2 or 3 sticks but will not boot 4 sticks at 800 try slowly upping mch voltage max i would go would be 1.34 depending on your over clock. You may not get all 4 stick in running at 1066; you should but you may not its allot of stress on motherboard. its best to use 2x2gb sticks. If you still need help click the link in my sig for a bios temp for your mb and post back filling in your current working settings and someone can further help you out.

Well, that seems to have done the trick. Setting the MCH to 1.3 and lowering the ram clock to 800 has left the system stable enough to run the latest version of memtest+ for a full night without error. Now I'm wondering whether to slowly raise the speed back toward 1066 (until instability sets in, then dial it back one notch) or leave well enough alone.

[Acebmxer]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Well, that seems to have done the trick. Setting the MCH to 1.3 and lowering the ram clock to 800 has left the system stable enough to run the latest version of memtest+ for a full night without error. Now I'm wondering whether to slowly raise the speed back toward 1066 (until instability sets in, then dial it back one notch) or leave well enough alone.

TBH in gaming and all around pc use you wont see much difference between 800 or 1066 unless you video encoding or doing benchmarks like Vantage or others. but it I would give it a shot I believe the max voltage for MCH is 1.4 or at least I wouldnt go past it. Just make sure you set Dram Voltage and timings as per the sticker says. If both sets of sticks are match pairs i would make sure to put on pair in slots 0,3 and the other match pair in 1,4. Only because the are match to work together but it shouldnt make any difference which order they are in.

[profJim]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

MCH Core settings are critical for booting and system stability. Too much or too little voltage will cause problems.
With a system running at stock speeds, 1.20 - 1.26 will usually work with 2x2GB or 4x1GB setups. You want to run with the lowest stable MCH Core voltage.
Dram Voltage between 2.0 and 2.1 volts should be fine.

[Warhammer: 3025]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Followup question: what does the MCH do? I know it stands for Memory Channel Hub (thank you google), but couldn't find out what it actually does (and why increasing it helped solve my problem).

Edit: I thought I set my BIOS to 800mhz, but CPUID says my memory is running at 400mhz

[profJim]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Short answer: The MCH handles communications between the cpu and your ram.

Better Answer (but not to technical): Wikipedia - Northbridge.

Now you're an expert.

**edit** Don't worry, your memory speed is 800MHz (2 x 400HMz). I'll let you do some research and report back for the benefit of others. ;)
My memory speeds are reported as 492MHz (see my sig).

[Acebmxer]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

like profjim said +1.

having all 4 ram slots buts more strain on the MCH so increasing its volts helps bring back stability.

Cpu-z reports what your memory is running at because its ddr2. 800= 400x2 1066 = 533x2

[profJim]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Check out Lsdme's Gigabyte X38/P35/P965 (DS* DQ* S3) Overclocking and General BIOS tweaking Guide for more overclocking information.

Be careful, it looks like you're catching the o/c bug.

[Psycho101]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

If you can raise the RAM back up to 1066 then that's cool, but as said it's not a real performance maker. give it a go any ways, there's nothing to loose. Bear in mind that you may need to give slightly more VDIMM than the modules are rated for to get it to work, along with maybe having to increase Static tRead by one or two ticks and tuning MCH Core voltage.

If you plan to stick with DDR-800, you can try setting the primary timings to 4-4-4-12 and see if you remain stable. It will go some way to giving you back a bit of performance that you loose dropping to DDR-800. It may work well or it may not. My modules can do 4-4-4-12 @ DDR-800, and those G.Skill are of equal quality, if not a bit better actually. the PK series is good RAM. Your DS3L is probably the reason for the need to slow the RAM down rather than issues with the RAM quality.

Also remember that your RAM is reported by Memset and CPU-Z to be running at half the DDR rate because it's DDR (double data rate) memory. The type of DDR (DDR, DDR2 and DDR3) ie the number after DDR has no bearing on it. DDR3 also runs in real terms at half the DDR rate and transmits data twice per cycle not three times per cycle as the 3 may imply. Differences between the three types are at the IC design level and involve operating voltage differences and transfer capabilities per pin etc. Also don't confuse DDR RAM with GDDR video RAM, as they're very different things.

[Warhammer: 3025]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Question asked was already answered. Ignore this post.

[Warhammer: 3025]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

If you can raise the RAM back up to 1066 then that's cool, but as said it's not a real performance maker. give it a go any ways, there's nothing to loose. Bear in mind that you may need to give slightly more VDIMM than the modules are rated for to get it to work, along with maybe having to increase Static tRead by one or two ticks and tuning MCH Core voltage.

If you plan to stick with DDR-800, you can try setting the primary timings to 4-4-4-12 and see if you remain stable. It will go some way to giving you back a bit of performance that you loose dropping to DDR-800. It may work well or it may not. My modules can do 4-4-4-12 @ DDR-800, and those G.Skill are of equal quality, if not a bit better actually. the PK series is good RAM. Your DS3L is probably the reason for the need to slow the RAM down rather than issues with the RAM quality.

Also remember that your RAM is reported by Memset and CPU-Z to be running at half the DDR rate because it's DDR (double data rate) memory. The type of DDR (DDR, DDR2 and DDR3) ie the number after DDR has no bearing on it. DDR3 also runs in real terms at half the DDR rate and transmits data twice per cycle not three times per cycle as the 3 may imply. Differences between the three types are at the IC design level and involve operating voltage differences and transfer capabilities per pin etc. Also don't confuse DDR RAM with GDDR video RAM, as they're very different things.

Check out Lsdme's Gigabyte X38/P35/P965 (DS* DQ* S3) Overclocking and General BIOS tweaking Guide for more overclocking information.

Be careful, it looks like you're catching the o/c bug.

So much to learn!

I did try to raise it back to 1066 with all 4 sticks, but that was a no-post, endless reboot situation too. Maybe I'll mess with the timings and such after learning more about how the whole thing works.

I was so happy, feeling all techy and stuff when I put my computer together from nothing but fresh parts. Now it seems like "nuh-uh, buddy! Construction was just the start"!

[profJim]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

Murphy's Law, 17th corollary: Nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

Ya done goodly, you physically assembled your system from scratch and it booted. Many others aren't as fortunate (or lucky).

We're here to help you with getting your system stable and optimized.
Please add your hardware setup to your forum signature, similar to what we have listed. To avoid errors or misunderstandings, we need you to post your current bios settings so that we can tell you which settings need to be changed. This post has all the information you'll need to get you started.

"The road to a long journey begins with a single step."

[Warhammer: 3025]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

CPU = Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale
Motherboard = Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L (Rev. A2)
BIOS Version = F10
Ram = G.Skill F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, 4x 1GB


MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio ..........................: 9x
Fine CPU Clock Ratio.....................:.+0.5
CPU Frequency ...........................: 2.53GHz (266x9.5)


Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control..................: Disabled
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 266
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .........: Auto

C.I.A.2 .................................:[Disabled]


Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive...........................: 800
PCI Express Clock Drive.................: 800
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0PS
MCH Clock Skew (ps)...................: 0PS


DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Auto
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: [Auto]
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 3.00A
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 1066 800
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: Auto

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time........................5 auto
tRCD .........................................5 auto
tRP'...........................................5 auto
tRAS..........................................15 auto


Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...........................................4 auto
tWTR...........................................4 auto
tWR............................................13 auto
tRFC...........................................68 auto
tRTP...........................................4
Command Rate (CMD) ....................:0


Motherboard Voltage Control

CPU
CPU Vcore….……….........................:1.17500V Auto

CPU Termination…..... 1.200V*.......:1.200V Auto

CPU PLL…………………....1.500V*.......:1.55V Auto

CPU Referen.…………....0.755V*.......:0.805V


MCH/ICH
MCH Core…………….....1.100V...........:1.300V
MCH Reference….…….0.800V...........:0.760V Auto
MCH/DRAM Ref.…......0.900V...........: <<< Leave
ICH I/O……………….....1.500V............:155.0V Auto
ICH Core…………...……1.100V............: <<< Leave



DRAM
DRAM Voltage ……....1.800V............:2.000V
DRAM Termination .…0.900V............: <<< Leave
Channel A Reference 0.900V............: <<< Leave
Channel B Reference 0.900V............: <<< Leave

Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................:Enabled
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................:Enabled

Integrated Peripherals
Legacy USB Storage Detect ..............Enabled

[profJim]

Re: Cannot install my new RAM

It looks like you never loaded OPTIMIZED bios settings before you made your bios changes.
Your system will probably have stability issues if you don't start with optimized settings.

Verify that your Cpu voltage in the bios PC Health screen is similar to (but slightly lower) than the displayed value in your bios template.

After loading optimized bios settings, you will need to manually re-enter your bios settings.
Please make the following changes:

PCI Express Frequency (MHz) .........: [Auto] <-- set to 100
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)......: [Auto] <-- set to Disabled
MCH Core…………….....1.100V...........: [1.300V] <-- 1.22 - 1.26 should be stable
DRAM Voltage ……....1.800V............: [2.000V] <-- set to 2.10

Legacy USB Storage Detect .............. [Enabled] <-- set to Disabled unless you need to boot from USB drives

Change all "<<< Leave" to AUTO in your template if they are set to AUTO
Some of the voltage settings are confusing, such as:
MCH Reference….…….0.800V...........:0.760V Auto
If you've manually set these values, eliminate the AUTO.
The value to the left is what is displayed in your bios as a "normal" setting.
The value to the right should say AUTO or the value that you've manually entered.

Verify that your system is stable by running Prime95 Blend test for 8 - 12 hours or longer.
If the test is error free, set System Memory Multiplier = 4.00A for 1066 memory speeds and repeat the extended Prime95 test.

Post your updated bios template after your test and include a screen-shot with:
Memset using the SPD and ">>" tabs
cpu-z main screen
EasyTune6 --> TUNER tab --> ADVANCE tab --> VOLTAGE tab