GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

[rodrigobragamg]

Hey; first of all, I know theres many stories exactly same around net, believe me, I read it all. Still, my story is a little different, follow up:

A - I bought my system 8 months ago, and till yesterday always would recognize 6GB (3x2 mushkin's).

B - I've bought the Ice Age Prima Boss, installed it twice (testing the positions, etc), and it was ok... Still, by a stupid reason I wanted to change the position again instead going to bed (pursue of perfection maybe), and since I was too tired unfortunately this **** happened:

Imageshack - hpim05361
Imageshack - hpim05381

This was caused due a huge lack of attention; when I was twisting the last screw I did not notice that the 1366 adaptador was kinda bent, therefore not together with the backplate... The result was some part of the m.board ripped off..

C - And to complete the show of stupidity, I tried to install the DRR3 in DDR3_1 slot backwards... But I notice right away and never turned on the system.

--/--

So I got this questions:

1 - The part ripped off, its important? Since the system worked out fine I judge that it was a reserved space only for pins/backplates.


2 - About the 4/6GB of ram (bios/windows 4gb, CPU-Z/E-Tune/Everest 6GB):

When I first notice I judge that was the DDR3_1 slot due my installing error... But I also notice right away that the BIOS recognizes 3 slots populated, and I can configure them all. Thats why its impossible that the slot is damage...

I've tested all DDR3 separately, all works fine, but I can't boot using 1x DDR3_1 (like most people with the same problem), but I notice that the DD3 on the lost heats up like when being used.

After some searchs the only thing I can judge as the problem is a(some) bend pin(s) on the 1366 socket...

---

What I've tried so far:

- Doing the Unplug PSU / Remove DDR3 / Clear CMOS / Flash BIOS / Load Default /, etc, process posted in this forum and others.

- Cleaning the CPU and 1366 socket with antiestatic pencil (I've searched for some bent pins, but not properly though, I need something like a microscope, lol).

- Remapping the rams: as I said, all of them works fine.

- Also cleaned the RAM slots with the antiestatic pencil + isopropilic alcohol

- Preying to Lord aid me (seriously).

---

The important peaces used are: i7 920 | GA-EX58-UD5 Rev 1.0 | Mushkin DDR3 3x2GB1600@7-8-7-20 | CxF 2x ATI HD 4850x2 2GB Sapphire | Corsair HX1000

[Psycho101]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

It's clear from the photo that you've ripped through a trace leading from the RAM slots to the CPU socket.

It's perfectly possible for the BIOS to still detect 3 slots populated, and for the RAM not to function. It's like disconnecting a HT lead form a sinfle spark plug on an engine. The engine will start, but just won't run right.

If I'm interpreting the photo correctly, and that's the damage you're refering to, it looks pretty terminal to me. This is probably the reason why you can't boot with a single stick in slot 1.

I'd do some more tests. If you can't bot with slot 1 only filled than run memtest. There must be additional effects to completely cutting off a trace. Worst case, running with slots 2, 4 and 6 populated may be fine.

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Psycho; would be the biggest coincidence ever if that spot represents the DDR3_1, and generated the most common problem around 1366 users, which is, boot not recognizing 6GB. Hehe.

I still don't think that this spot damaged represents the RAM, otherwise, I think that would not boot at all, since its a major damage for sure.

The bad thing is that I made many things at same time; reinstalled the cooler (and processor), remapped some rams, etc...

About the 2/4/6, it wont boot... For tri-channel the white slots must be used... : /

[Psycho101]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Of course the damaged spot has severed a DRAM trace. Can't you see that? It's clear as a bell. Where else would that trace be going. And like I said, you can cut a trace and still have some semblance of functionality, it depends what trace you sever. I don't see how it can be called a big coincidence that you can't boot with a single module in slot 1 and have also severed a trace that leads at least underneath the plastic slot 1 surround. Those are DRAM traces, no doubt about that.

Think of it this way, on cases of bent pind s in sockets, it's possible to loose a slot in the BIOS (detected as empty etc). The PC still boopts though. This is EXACTLY the same as cutting a trace. DRAM Traces nopw all lead back to the CPU socket, which is where that one's heading. A cut trace or a bent pin will have the same effect, except a broken trace isn't as easy to fix.

It doesn't matter how the 4 out of 6GB problem is caused. If I want to stop water coming out of the end of a hose pipe I can either plug the end, or clamp it off further down the pipe, result's the same, no water. Same is true for a pin connection from DRAM to CPU, bent pin, cut trace, it's the same thing.

There is no coincidence, you have cut a DRAM trace, and that's why you have a problem detecting 6GB. It's that simple and plainly obvious. If that trace goes under the DRAM slots it's connected to a DRAM slot pin.

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Adding info:

I remapped the RAM's to see what I could get, and I can use Dual Channel in the following configuration: 2x in DDR3_3 + DRR3_4 / 1x in DDR3_5

Since the EX58-UD5 don't allow us to use Tri Channel within the Blue Slots, I cannot check if the DDR3_2 (first blue) is ok...

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Is that also a scratch near the CPU Socket? Long one?

When you only have 4GB, do you see N/A in the BIOS next to any channels? If so, this may just be caused by incorrect QPI/Vtt and Vdimm amounts, I see this often and can cause it anytime on purpose

That is a lead, to what I am not sure, most likely ram though as said above as that is where it looks to be going. And I really can't see if you damaged it fully or not, sometimes boards work fine as long as the lead is not fully cut through. I have used several with long scratches through several leads and never had a problem, other times one small scratch will kill the board.

RMA will be denied most likely for that scratch though, just so you know.

I can boot fine with a single stick in any white slot, are you saying you cannot? If so, then you likely have a dead ram slot, or possibly incorrect voltage settings as I just tested this myself tonight for another member. I tested using Mushkin (Same kit you have 998679) at 4.2Ghz and could run a single stick by itself in any white slot.

And yes, one single bent pin in the CPU Socket can also make the board unbootable/unstable or one or more memory channels to fail. Have you checked for bent pins, sorry I could not see them all in your image?

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

HEY LSD, thanks for your answer, I was expecting you : )

"Is that also a scratch near the CPU Socket? Long one?"
No, its some rest of thermal grease (Noctua NT-H1).


When you only have 4GB, do you see N/A in the BIOS next to any channels? If so, this may just be caused by incorrect QPI/Vtt and Vdimm amounts, I see this often and can cause it anytime on purpose
All Three Channels are recognized properly in BIOS, and I can configure everything normally. And I must remember that I always used the 6GB normally before this events, so I dont believe that is voltage, since I used the same BIOS, Configurations, and off course, I cleared the CMOS many times (auto voltages). P.S: I tried 3 Bios already, F5/F7/F9e, now i'm with F9e.

That is a lead, to what I am not sure, most likely ram though as said above as that is where it looks to be going. And I really can't see if you damaged it fully or not, sometimes boards work fine as long as the lead is not fully cut through. I have used several with long scratches through several leads and never had a problem, other times one small scratch will kill the board.
True... I have some options to fix that scratch: Using conductive silver ink to put that trace together / Paying someone to do properly soldering / And I read some crazy fixing with using a wire of a IDE cable... What you think? P.S: I know about the RMA, I will not use it anyway, I'm in Brazil, bought it in USA, the shipment costs would be heavy.

I can boot fine with a single stick in any white slot, are you saying you cannot? If so, then you likely have a dead ram slot, or possibly incorrect voltage settings as I just tested this myself tonight for another member. I tested using Mushkin (Same kit you have 998679) at 4.2Ghz and could run a single stick by itself in any white slot.
In the test I did yesterday it wouldn't Post using only the DDR3_1 slot (first white). But since the BIOS and 3rd part programs recognizes the DDR3_1 slot and the Tri Channel, isn't dead, right?.. I can try again tho...

And yes, one single bent pin in the CPU Socket can also make the board unbootable/unstable or one or more memory channels to fail. Have you checked for bent pins, sorry I could not see them all in your image?
Yes, I've checked several times, with a Flashlight above it (lol), and its all perfect... I took many photos to use the zoom, I can post if you want.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Thanks for the reply, I just could not tell about that long one... Looked like a scratch or just lighting to me so I thought I better ask

About the channels in the BIOS, I do not mean they are not configurable just that there is a N/A shown on the left side of the BIOS. I can do it now and post a pic if you like so we are sure of what I am asking. If you know what I mean, and you are sure this is not the case then ignore me on that. Auto voltages is not going to work for this memory really, you would need to set your own and use a BIOS above F9c. BIOS below F9c do not work with this memory properly. Use F9c or F10d

Yes, it could be repaired for sure, how easily depends on your skills and or options. The single trace is all that you need to worry about it looks like to me, do you agree? Just checking as I can only see that in the two images you posted. Can you post a more direct overhead one? How about one wet with small dab from cotton of alcohol so we can see if the trace is scratched all the way through. Or can you already tell if it is completely through it?

You should be able to boot with a single stick in any white channel, so likely that trace goes to the first white slot then or you have incorrect settings. Did you test it at stock/optimized defaults and manually set QPI/Vtt and IOH? Just wondered

BIOS and third party apps may not apply when it comes to faulty slots/dimms. What do you see in windows task manager for physical memory in the performance tab? If the BIOS or Task Manger show 4GB only then you are using only 4GB dual channel, no matter what anything else says

Ya, I did not see any bent pins in the two you posted, but just could not see that one corner. If you are sure there is none then no need to post more pics of the socket.

It is VERY likely you damaged the trace as suspected thus killing the first white slot and or possibly first blue one as well.

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

About the channels in the BIOS, I do not mean they are not configurable just that there is a N/A shown on the left side of the BIOS. I can do it now and post a pic if you like so we are sure of what I am asking. If you know what I mean, and you are sure this is not the case then ignore me on that. Auto voltages is not going to work for this memory really, you would need to set your own and use a BIOS above F9c. BIOS below F9c do not work with this memory properly. Use F9c or F10d
I understand what you meant, there's no N/A, that's what I tried to explain; but will appear N/A in the first channel if I remove the RAM of DDR3_1... About the voltages, I know, I used fixed voltages or auto voltages, and three different BIOS (most times F7), and like I said, when I first boot my PC I was using the same old configuration (like when was working the 6GB).

Yes, it could be repaired for sure, how easily depends on your skills and or options. The single trace is all that you need to worry about it looks like to me, do you agree? Just checking as I can only see that in the two images you posted. Can you post a more direct overhead one? How about one wet with small dab from cotton of alcohol so we can see if the trace is scratched all the way through. Or can you already tell if it is completely through it?
I agree, the dam screw only got a small part of it : /... I can't post right know cause the Ice Age is blocking all the view, and I already cleaned it up with Isopropilic Alcohol, that's all the damage.

You should be able to boot with a single stick in any white channel, so likely that trace goes to the first white slot then or you have incorrect settings. Did you test it at stock/optimized defaults and manually set QPI/Vtt and IOH? Just wondered
I tested in default settings, but never with IOH voltage manually set... What you suggest?

BIOS and third party apps may not apply when it comes to faulty slots/dimms. What do you see in windows task manager for physical memory in the performance tab? If the BIOS or Task Manger show 4GB only then you are using only 4GB dual channel, no matter what anything else says
I know, like I explained in the first post, Windows recognizes 4GB, but CPU-Z/Everest/Easy Tune, etc, shows 6GB, tri-channel. And the Post (the "Memory testing area") appears 4GB, but inside the BIOS three channels are recognized..

It is VERY likely you damaged the trace as suspected thus killing the first white slot and or possibly first blue one as well.
Yep... All comes to this.

---

Another subject about the F9e bios. Did you notice this values in F9e:
CPU Clock Drive ..............................[700mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ................... [700mV]

But all BIOS that I've seen till the F9e configured those values as 800mv/900mv.

Whats the best?

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

This memory is not compatible with BIOS F7, please use F9c or F10d. Yes it will work, but it will not run stock clocks at high Bclk so it may also cause others issues as well. Not this in particular, but I do suggest one of those two BIOS as I just did a review on this kit (Link in my signature) and I had to wait for a compatible BIOS as F9b and below were not compatible at all.

Ahh, Hmm do you have any other images of it then? I would like to see one straight down onto it if you have one

I suggest IOH 1.2-1.24, check my review out I posted several settings tables for various speeds

Windows sees 4GB? As in windows task manager performance tab like I asked? If so then yes, the channel is damaged or settings are incorrect. Likely damage if you did not see this before you damaged the board. It does not matter what CPU-z, everest, ect says

Ya, buddy sorry to have to lay it on you but these things happen. Even to the best of us, so don't feel bad. I have done it myself with water cooling bolts, not for a few years but just letting you know it happens to us all.

You may still be able to use 6GB fully, but triple channel will not work if the first white slots is broke. I have not tested, but you may be able to use slots 3/5 white and one of the blue slots to make use of all 6GB. Not sure though?

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

This memory is not compatible with BIOS F7, please use F9c or F10d. Yes it will work, but it will not run stock clocks at high Bclk so it may also cause others issues as well. Not this in particular, but I do suggest one of those two BIOS as I just did a review on this kit (Link in my signature) and I had to wait for a compatible BIOS as F9b and below were not compatible at all.
Hmm, I'm a UD5 user since it was released, and since the first BIOS I never had any problem with this Mushkins. And the F7 BIOS was the one I used most (and the one I liked most), never had any issues with stock or overclocking profiles (already used 4.0ghz). Whether using 1600mhz at 7-8-7-20 1.58v, or 1400mhz at 7-7-7-19 1.56v (or 1.54v). I saw your review, maybe the problem is that you used the UD4P?

Ahh, Hmm do you have any other images of it then? I would like to see one straight down onto it if you have one
Of the damage. I would need to remove the cooler to get another one. I took 4/5, those two I posted gave the better results.

I suggest IOH 1.2-1.24, check my review out I posted several settings tables for various speeds
Ok, I can try...

Windows sees 4GB? As in windows task manager performance tab like I asked? If so then yes, the channel is damaged or settings are incorrect. Likely damage if you did not see this before you damaged the board. It does not matter what CPU-z, everest, ect says
Yes... I mentioned the other 3rd part programs cause dozens (maybe hundreds) of users had the same exactly problem, but in their case (most at least) were a configuration problem... You know since you helped many.

Ya, buddy sorry to have to lay it on you but these things happen. Even to the best of us, so don't feel bad. I have done it myself with water cooling bolts, not for a few years but just letting you know it happens to us all.
Ya... Worst when happens with a $330 board... (This price when I bought it 8 months ago).

You may still be able to use 6GB fully, but triple channel will not work if the first white slots is broke. I have not tested, but you may be able to use slots 3/5 white and one of the blue slots to make use of all 6GB. Not sure though?
Yes, as I posted above, I can use 6GB in Dual channel, I'm using it right now. You just need to populate the DDR3_3, DDR3_4 and DDR3_5.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Sorry about that!!!

Either way, same applies only different BIOS versions for UD5. The issue was with Mushkin 998679 using older non compatible BIOS would not boot stock timings 787-20 at Bclk of 175+ (Such as 200 Blck x 8 ram multi), this was only corrected in new BIOS after they were sent some kits for testing by Mushkin. For UD5 the BIOS that was made to be compatible (And onwards) is F8d. Any BIOS before F8e would not be able to boot at high bclk's with 787-20 timings.

Are you sure about 4Ghz and 787-20 timings, what Blck was this? I used UD4P for the review, but have UD5 here as well and it had the same issues until BIOS F8e after Mushkin sent them some memory. I could run 1600Mhz at stock timings no problem, just not at high Bclk's

$330 board, where do you shop? Or do you just mean this because you bought it a while ago? I think they are 250-280 now

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Either way, same applies only different BIOS versions for UD5. The issue was with Mushkin 998679 using older non compatible BIOS would not boot stock timings 787-20 at Bclk of 175+ (Such as 200 Blck x 8 ram multi), this was only corrected in new BIOS after they were sent some kits for testing by Mushkin. For UD5 the BIOS that was made to be compatible (And onwards) is F8d. Any BIOS before F8e would not be able to boot at high bclk's with 787-20 timings.
Are you sure about 4Ghz and 787-20 timings, what Blck was this? I used UD4P for the review, but have UD5 here as well and it had the same issues until BIOS F8e after Mushkin sent them some memory. I could run 1600Mhz at stock timings no problem, just not at high Bclk's
Except the fact that I made a dump mistake damaging this trace, I'm kinda a advance tweaker, and I can assure, I've used 200 Bclk with 7-8-7-20 @ 1.58v/1.6v. And I used this configuration with BIOS F7. P.S Without turbo function, 200x20.

$330 board, where do you shop? Or do you just mean this because you bought it a while ago? I think they are 250-280 now
Like I said in the previous post, I bought it months ago, to be more precise in January, in performancepcs.com

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

You very well may be correct as I only quickly tested on UD5, but I know Mushkin also said they tested UD5 and saw the same issues I mention until they sent off sticks for testing and compatibility fixes.

I guess maybe they overprice things then? I have only bought mod items from there, never hardware like boards. Seems high to me, but maybe not? I was thinking the UD5 was always under 300, but I guess I am not always right :)

So do you plan to try conductive ink on the trace?

[rodrigobragamg]

Re: GA-EX85-UD5/i7 - 4GB of 6GB problem + differente story (and pictures)

Yeah, it was expensive in time, was just after the release. The Extreme was $30 higher I guess, or $20.

About the BIOS... You keep saying to get F9c or F10d... But man, those are UD4 BIOS, no? For UD5 the F9e is the last BIOS: http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Support/...2961#anchor_os


So do you plan to try conductive ink on the trace?
I've read in a forum a electronic technician saying that using conductive ink would be risky/danger, because the trail can be multi layered. What you think about that (maybe he wanted to gain some $ doing the service, hehe).

I just receive the answer of gigabyte about the damage, unfortunately was a generic answer : /...

So, do you think using silver conductive ink would be risky?

--

By the way, about the F9e bios. Did you notice this values in F9e?
CPU Clock Drive ..............................[700mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ................... [700mV]

But all BIOS that I've seen till the F9e configured those values as 800mv/900mv, respectively.

Whats the best?