CPU Microcode?

[Fabulist]

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to update the CPU Microcode of a Gigabyte BIOS? (G1.Sniper in particular)

Thanks!

[Acebmxer]

Re: CPU Microcode?

it is possible. Why do you need to? That board should work with just about all 1366 cpus.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

And it likely already is using the latest aside from a possible internal testing code floating around somewhere.

As mentioned above, why did you ask?

[Fabulist]

Re: CPU Microcode?

Hey guys, thanks for your responses.

Well I'd like to make sure it's using the latest Microcode, because I think the one it's using now is either incompatible or outdated.

Why?

Well because I have some very special problems; like I cannot run an application in a single thread (single core e.g. CPU 0) without having the application performing poorly, and situations where disabling Hyper-Threading makes the CPU to 'spike' in 3D applications.

While if an application can run in a single thread, it should run better in a single thread instead of multiple. Also 3D applications usually perform slightly better (depends) with hyper-threading off, so much for spiking.


Although the above might seem to you like an OS or an OC issue or some other hardware related issue, I can assure you it is not. The same components are behaving like this only in this motherboard, while these issues are non-existent for example in motherboards like the EVGA E770 and the ASUS P6T7 SC.

I can elaborate on the matter if you are curious and want me to describe what I am experiencing, but after extensive tests I cannot think of anything else than the Microcode being the problem - because I remember the E770 had a 'similar' behavior AFTER a Microcode update.

So the one used is either the latest one, as you properly stated (but is simply not working right for me), or is an outdated one.

Got time to help me or have a magical way to resolve this? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

Ahh OK, I was thinking you asked because you were wondering about using an unsupported CPU or something like that.

You can message Gigabyte directly, and explain, and see if they will give you a beta BIOS with an updated microcode (If they have one, Intel may not pass them out frequently). I can extract the current one if you like and tell you the date of the file, if you'd like to know this before you message them, if so let me know.

GIGABYTE - Support & Downloads - Technical Support

[Chike]

Re: CPU Microcode?

The microcode doesn't have to be updated in BIOS. It can and is updated by the OS.
You can try and install the latest update from Microsoft.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

And here is the latest microcode I can find, I didn't know these were available publicly until now. So you can pass this along in your message if you want

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=20728&OSFullname=SUSE+Linux*&lang=eng

Chike, the newer ones are packaged into award BIOSes, in the NCPUCODE.BIN file, old ones are in cpucode.bin. It's part of the BIOS for sure, but windows does utilize/load the coding, from the BIOS though.

The latest microcode update in your F4E BIOS is dated 11/03/2011, so it's fairly up to date

[profJim]

Re: CPU Microcode?

The Intel link is for "Linux* Processor Microcode Data File".

A quick search turned up A microcode reliability update is available that improves the reliability of systems that use Intel processors for XP through Vista systems.

[Fabulist]

Re: CPU Microcode?

@ Lsdmeasap

Thanks for taking your time with this, I use the F4E BIOS version for G1.Sniper 1 - found here: GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket 1366 - G1.Sniper (rev. 1.0)

If you can tell me the method you will use to identify the version (maybe even how to integrate it), I will be happy to do it myself so you will not be annoyed further with the matter.

Also, the version you've sent me refers to a "Linux" version, but I forgot to mention I use Windows, is it the same for the MS OS?

In addition, if the method to integrade it is 'standard' like for updating Intel's OROM, I already have some knowledge on how to do it, thanks to Acebmxer!

@ chike

Thanks for your input on the matter, but I am not aware of the technique used to update the Microcode via the OS, in fact I cannot even understand how's that possible, can you elaborate on this?

@ profJim

Thanks for the link, I will investigate further - hopefully I will found a similar link in Intel's website, any further suggestions are welcome.


Thanks guys!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

No problem Fabulist! And so you know, I'm not annoyed at all to help with this, it's what I do and I'm always happy to help!

F4E is the BIOS I checked, so it's the same you are using. I cannot tell you the method I use to check the date of the microcodes, I'm sorry but it's not something I can share for a few reasons. I can tell you it's not something that can be easily updated, and it no where near as simple as updating the OROM's. The method of checking dates of included microcodes is not the same as exchanging them either, updating the microcode is way more involved and is not something I can do either or I would have done it for you while I checked the dates of the Microcodes. I'm very sorry, I've tried my best to learn how to do that several times and I honestly can't grasp it due to the way award now uses cpucode and ncpucode to insert the newer larger microcodes.

If you would like to know how it's done, you can find more info at rebelshavenforum.com, BIOS-mods.com, wimsBIOS.com but trust me this is not a simple task AT ALL. Extracting the two microcodes is easy, but editing them and reinsertion is the complicated task, and one I've never been able to tackle, it can be done though with hex editing and some special tools, but you have to risk the bricked board once you are done too, so that makes it even more daunting.

Linux coding is the only format the microcodes come in (It's just a zip file, you can unzip if you like and the text with codes is legible in .dat format with notepad), so that is what is used and why I linked you to that, so you could pass along the link of the latest version to Gigabyte support when you sent them an email asking for a special updated BIOS (Less work for them to hunt it down). Updating the code via the OS cannot be done, although through the OS is how it is used, but windows reads and uses the microcode information automagically from the BIOS.

Here is an image of the internal date codes of the current included microcodes, just so you can see the dates. This includes the old 2kb cpucode, latest is 2008, after that they used larger file sizes which is the ncpucode, and that is where the difficulty lies (Extracting this, editing in which codes you need to insert after picking which you want/need from the 1000's included in the Intel package, then reinserting this). It used to be simple, many years ago in the cpucode days, but the introduction of the larger sized ncpucode is what makes it tough nowadays.



Ask Gigabyte support to pass your request along to the BIOS engineers, and request a special updated BIOS from them. If they have the free time they will more than likely do it for you

[Chike]

Re: CPU Microcode?

If BIOS can do it why not the OS?
It also make much more sence, since the majority of PC users are not even aware of "BIOS" let alone ever updating it.
Exactly how you can read about here: http://www.xn--sten-cpa.se/share/uni.../microcode.pdf

[Fabulist]

Re: CPU Microcode?

@ Lsdmeasap

An exceptional post Lsdmeasap, very helpful, I will try also attempt to educate myself on the matter but if you can't do it, I seriously doubt I will be able to, since lack of information on the internet regarding these matters is the problem for me too.

In any case, thanks for taking your time including all relevant information about this - in addition I have already contacted GIGABYTE about this issue and am expecting a response (will update post as soon as I get something relevant) and I will also attempt to request an update from them, but I seriously doubt the possibility that they will in fact do an upgrade for me.

I mean I already asked them for an Intel OROM upgrade, and they responded that (not quoted) the current OROM works fine and they do not see a reason for an upgrade, furthermore any attempts to change the BIOS will void warranty blabla.. That didn't sound like a person willing to help in my opinion - thanks to Acebmxer though I was able to do it myself as I previously mentioned.

@ Chike

Chike are you speculating or you in fact do know how to do it?

Because as Lsdmeasap the situation is both abstract and delicate, if you know how to update the Microcode via the command prompt, OS, tools, or any other way, please fill us in with that knowledge.

Thanks again guys, if any idea comes up regarding the issues mentioned, please let me know!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

If BIOS can do it why not the OS?
It also make much more sence, since the majority of PC users are not even aware of "BIOS" let alone ever updating it.
Exactly how you can read about here: http://www.xn--sten-cpa.se/share/uni.../microcode.pdf

BIOS does not do it, windows does - pulled from the BIOS by the OS, and this is done auto-magically as I mentioned previously. It USED to be possible to update this via windows, by pushing the microcode update into the BIOS manually, way back 5-10 years ago when the microcode file was only 2KB. That file is still used, but the majority (98%) of the microcode used today in Gigabyte award BIOS is inside the Ncpucode now, and this doesn't allow anything to be manually pushed into it from windows, and I doubt windows itself even allows this today even if we still used only the 2KB file because of security issues.

The PDF you linked is from 2000, and talks of what I mentioned above, pushing an update on the 2KB file. I agree with Fabulist, if you know how to do this with today's Award/Gigabyte BIOSes and the ncpucode files, please let us know so I can let everyone know that currently messes with this kind of thing, the BIOS hacking professionals can only do it via extraction > hex edit > Insertion > then pray for working motherboard after flash.

You are right though, it used to be possible, just not anymore due to the file structure changes due to the size of required included microcodes, and changes to windows itself as well I'd assume. The size of the updates in itself makes it not possible with the older methods anyway, because that only addresses the single 2KB file and that file must stay that size which is why they now also use ncpucode which can be any size as long as there is room

@ Lsdmeasap

An exceptional post Lsdmeasap, very helpful, I will try also attempt to educate myself on the matter but if you can't do it, I seriously doubt I will be able to, since lack of information on the internet regarding these matters is the problem for me too.

In any case, thanks for taking your time including all relevant information about this - in addition I have already contacted GIGABYTE about this issue and am expecting a response (will update post as soon as I get something relevant) and I will also attempt to request an update from them, but I seriously doubt the possibility that they will in fact do an upgrade for me.

I mean I already asked them for an Intel OROM upgrade, and they responded that (not quoted) the current OROM works fine and they do not see a reason for an upgrade, furthermore any attempts to change the BIOS will void warranty blabla.. That didn't sound like a person willing to help in my opinion - thanks to Acebmxer though I was able to do it myself as I previously mentioned.

Thanks, and no problem, I'm always here to help when I can! I'm sorry I can't provide more help directly on this for you, and I'm really sorry I can't do it for you! The info is out there on how to do this, in the forums I mentioned previously. I would do it for you if I felt comfortable, and yes I did spend a few hours this morning looking around to see if any new breakthroughs had been made lately in regards to this as people are always working on it and tinkering around trying to find ways to do these type of things. If I would have found any updated methods that were safer or proven I would have went ahead and updated it for you, but same old news, you must pick through which codes you want or include them all, then hex edit it in and then insert and pray it doesn't kill your board. I can do that with some hassles since proper tools are not available, but I hate hex editing, and I don't have a G1 board here to test with, so I wouldn't feel safe passing a BIOS along to you that I was unsure about.

I'm sorry tech support was so unwilling to help you with the option ROM's, they do update them periodically after extensive testing, but not always to the latest due to instabilities or incompatibilities with various hardware components. And of course, yes they would have to mention your warranty, you can easily brick your board with a bad flash, so you always have to keep that in mind. Recovery is usually always possible, but you have to either know how to do it manually, or have certain tools, or a combo of both of those. So it's super risky for general users to mess with anything like this.

I will ask directly and see if I can get this sorted out for you. Can you please post me your elaborated and extensive testing and conclusions on why you need the update, and I'll email that to my contact along with a link to this thread and see if he'll have one of the BIOS guys update that for you if/when they have a few spare minutes, as I'm sure they can probably do it with a few simple clicks in under 5 minutes since they have the proper tools. I'm not making any promises, but I will try and I wont get the same type of response from my contact that you did from tech support, if you provide replicable and ample reasons for them to update it for you.

[Chike]

Re: CPU Microcode?

Wgat's to "speculate", you can see there are updates on microsoft site, and a file for linux on intel site, if this is not enough to understand it has not much to do with BIOS what is?
Updating the microcode is a feature Intel implement for their CPU, the code is loaded to the CPU and valid just until next CPU reset.

Description of the Microcode Update device

The Microcode Update device is an interface between the operating system and an Intel processor based on the x86 architecture. This device provides the latest microcode updates for the processor if the BIOS does not already contain this information.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU Microcode?

Hmm, very nice, thanks Chike! I'd never seen anything on the Microsoft site about it, but I think you'd have to be able to load the Microsoft tool with the Intel files, otherwise as you know Microsoft always uses older versions of all drivers. I do see that your quote says if the BIOS doesn't already contain, so that may be their way to update but all BIOS contain these files and they are mainly maintained by motherboard manufacturers and Intel, Microsoft would never keep up with all of that per each motherboard and CPU released.

And actually, that is an old article too, 2007, and it looks like it only addressed a single issue that was brought to them to fix. There is nothing new anywhere like that, or do you know where the current always updating page is? Intel updates it's site about once every month or two with new files. And after following the links on that page, it's more old news on fixes for Vista. All that was like a security update they released a few times in the past, unless there is something new that updates frequently and regularly I don't think this helps with what he's wanting to do, unless you can find one for newer than 11/03/2011 for windows 7, then it might help.

The Intel Microcodes go into the BIOSes, as you can see by the image I posted where I already extracted them and showed the dates, they are then pulled from the BIOS and loaded by windows to control CPU instructions and adjustments. It's written in Linux because that is partially how many of the BIOS tools are Linux/DOS, it's just a data file though and you can view all the coding with notepad if you want. You'll see sometimes on Gigabyte's site change logs they put "Update Microcode" but not often, same when they add new CPU Compatibility that is microcode updates. The only time you can update this in windows was in the past really, of course there may be 1-2 files somewhere out there to do it now from MS, but it's not the same thing we are discussing.